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It would be nice if you could indicate which of the graphics are done and which of them are currently missing or worked on, so it's clear where we can comment on. Like it's fairly obvious that the "main menu" needs some polishing, but I suppose this isn't ready yet.
Some sprites (the fish for instance) have a noticeable artifacts around the border: try using an alpha layered PNG, vectorize the original image or use a mask layer for transparency. I like the "obvious" parallax for the style, but it would be nice if the ground and wave graphics would tile better horizontally.
Lowering the alpha for the fish nets to make them somewhat transparent could be nice (not sure, you'll have to test it out).

• All-in-all, most people react well to the graphics. Only negative comments I've seen so far has been on elements that I know will be fixed.

Music

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The music is really great for the setting of the game. They match really well. The addition of sound effects would be nice though. Just going from the music played during the game to the menu music is not all that great you need some sort of sound effect for when you die. And a different sound effect depending on wether you get caught by a net or a hook.

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Some sound effects perhaps, like the sound of air bubbles floating up?

• I believe we have a big load of sound effects being added shortly? Dunno if bubbles floating up is a part of this though.
• Haven't heard nothing but kind words about the compositions and effects so far. Be proud!

Controls

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Once I figured the controls I got stuck everywhere because of the collisions with the net. I felt frustrated, stuck where the second net is, and stopped playing after a couple of tries (which I guess is not what you want).

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It took me a frustratingly long time to figure out the controls (i.e. click to move up!). At first, I thought it was the arrow keys, then I thought maybe it was moving the mouse up/down. Then, I noticed that the fish moved when I pressed the mouse button down, but with that knowledge I could only get it to jump out of the water for some reason! I don't think the controls are intuitive at all.

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It's a very simple game, yet you could include some instructions. Like how you have to press the mouse button to float up or exit the credits screen. You could also allow alternate controls, like the arrow up key or space bar.

• We might want to consider doing something about the controls. I still feel like this game should simply be kept to the mouse alone, and that it should only include pressing one button, but I've been thinking that maybe we should change the effect of the clicking.
• Suggested change: How about if we make the fish just bounce up a bit when pressing the left mouse button, making the player a bit more engaged in the game, as he'll have to continuously press the left mouse button with precision in order to jump high at the right places, or slip in between a tight area.
• In any case, we definately need a quick introductionscreen that tells you simply and quickly what the controls at your disposal are. There's nothing worse than wondering if there might be any other controls you can use to your benefit, forcing you to press every button at the keyboard looking for it…

Difficulty

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It's a little too easy. For instance, you can just keep "crawling" on the ground and occasionally press the mouse button to finish the level.

Addictiveness

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Its not addicting at all. It amy get a little more addicting once you add a high score board, but only for people that a really competitive and try and be #1. I would recommend giving the player a new kind of fish for each level.

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Fairly low, you need to make the game play more interesting without making it too difficult to play for a casual gamer. You could make static objects that the player has to swim around but which will not attack him like coral or a sunken ship. Perhaps you can pick up items on your way for extra points. Maybe "live" enemies that move, making it more challenging to avoid them (sharks, harpoons, etc.).

• We already had features like this in mind right? I believe the small fish for the bigger one to catch was already a decided part of the concept, right?
• Having a highscore count and board would also definately aid in this issue, and I believe this is also an already planned addition, taken into account.

Awareness

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I read it but mostly because Im a curious person. It looked pretty boring. If you add a scrolling option and something happening in the back groud like a reef, bubbles, and to help get the point across to the reader fish getting caught in nets and on hooks. Just if you add bubbles put them on the sides of the screen where there isn't any text to read. Also put the fish getting caught above the text. If its behind the text it will be distracting. For the text box put it at the bottom of the screen with the backgroud a reef.

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No, I didn't bother to read the notes. To counter that, you may want to consider a splash screen with the text automatically scrolling by. The text shouldn't be as short as possible while still long enough to get the message across. Scrolling the will make the text looks less daunting as you will only see so many words at a time. If you have time, you may even consider an animation to communicate the message.
Maybe this has to do with unfinished graphics, but the font should be much bigger to allow people with less than perfect eyes to read it.

• He might be right about the font, but as for other changes, I think we should wait untill the game is more or less finished according to our original concept, as I think people will read more as long as it simply looks really good.

Length

• Not really a need for comments on this point untill the game is nearing completion, with all levels included.

Bugs and oddities

The bounding box issue is extremely annoying. You should just have a very thin box for the entrance of the net and leave the rest of it untouched (because I don't see how you can get caught in the net unless you go through the opening).

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Also, collision detection (e.g. for the net) could use some work!

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"Like when you swim just close to a fishing net, but get caught anyway."
Exactly that. The collision detection should be more forgiving: currently, it feels "unfair", which is annoying and frustrating for players.

• So, is it possible to make our collision detection more "forgiving"?
• Possible to make only the entrance of nets dangerous, letting the fish swim over the backside where there is no hole in, making it look like he's swimming on the side of the net.

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I kept the mouse button pressed and I was stuck at the top jumping…

• Sounds like a bug to me. Anyone else encountered this?

Miscellaneous

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Other than that, the game just needs some more speed and a bit more variation. Also, some sort of collectible point system would be nice and you could think about putting some above water and adding some seagull enemies.

• The speed, also as I've mentioned before, is something I think we should consider looking into, but it's not an important issue in my opinion. It comes more down to how the levels are made.
• We're already planning to add collectibles.
• Let's not think about seagulls or any other misc enemies untill the game is completely finished. Stick with the boats for now.

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It's unclear to me how the final score is determined.

• I presume this will be solved with a hichscore counter later, right? I guess we also need graphics for this.

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Add a "replay" button, so the player can restart the game without having to go to the main menu.

• This goes into my previous suggestion about letting the player continue from the level where he last died.

Music

• It's annoying when you hear the wonderful backgroundmusic while looking at the "you loose" screen, then you press "main menu", and it starts from the beginning again, same track.
• I'd love for some slightly smoother musicchanges. I mean, like when you press "start game". Make the music fade out a bit maybe then go into the in-game music?
• The transition from when you loose to when you go back to the menu works very nicely though.
• As for the quality of the music, I couldn't be happier. I don't know how to put the right words on what I feel when I'm hearing these tracks, but they just make me feel right, I can tell you that for sure!

Visuals

• The blue background looks astonishing, blending very nicely in with the lightbeam effects. Nice!
• What's up with the dirt-bottom and the waves? Why these obvious straight lines?
• The fish looks very good and has a nice animation. Only thing that bothers me are those obvious white lines around it.
• The design of the boats and their nets is great, but the appearance I have to admit looks just average. I would like to see a little bit more detail put into those if it's possible.
• Also see my comment about the "longlines" further down.
• I would love to see a small splash effect to go along with the sound when the fish jumps out and back into the water!

Gameplay

• The tiny fish for bonuspoints will be there at some point I hope? Also, without a highscore pointer at the top, there's little point in playing a game like this.
• I think the "longlines" should have more than one hook. It could vary of course, and shouldn't be made too hard.
• A thing that annoyed me about the nets is that you can still get caught by them even though you've swam past the opening. I guess you can still get caught in nets because you can get tangled in, but these nets don't have that kind of appearance, yet(?). I'm guessing it's easier to make the entire picture dangerous, so this might rather be something to improve visually.
• On the credits screen, the only artist credited is David. I believe Daniel has also done some significant work? (Sorry, but exactly what is beyond me).
• Maybe it's just me, but I feel like the game is going a bit too slow. Maybe consider putting the obstacles further away from eachother and adding to the speed instead?

That's it for now. Two freakishly huge thumbs up to everybody for work very well done so far!

I think this would be a good time to start inviting people to the website in order for them to test out the game and provide us with a great load of feedback via the forums or in e-mail to me (or to Matthew should he agree to place his e-mail in public).

I've made it impossible for non-team members to edit any of the pages of this site, and all the content of this site is also protected under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 License, however, some of you might want a more strict license?
Besides the license issues, I can't think of any other reasons why we shouldn't make the site and it's content official at his point, but maybe you can tell me otherwise?

I'm leaving for Santiago for two weeks on December 3rd, so it would be very nice if we could settle this before that time, so that I may get the thread posted and let the feedback flow while I'm away.

I'll try not completely disappear, but don't count on me being able to pull many strings during this period. Will keep you updated.

• Animations - will we be using bitmap/frame based animations, or SWF animations?
  • Should we decide on a common format for all animations? ( SWF or jpg/png/gif)
• Should be decide on a common format for backgrounds? (jpg/png/gif)

Some other questions still stand, concerning all of us (I'm in the progress of creating some picture-suggestions):

• What would be an ideal background?
• What exactly should a fishingnet, a longline etc. look like and do in this game? All suggestions are welcome.

• Are we still considering additional fish species for the players to control? If so, which ones?

• What's the final list on 'bad guys'?

A: ?

860kb - http://www.weebly.com/uploads/5/1/1/7/51171/boatsbg.rar

I would be highly appreciated if everyone could try and imagine how they see these different reference images being used as in-game obstacles. Obviously, they can't just be put right in there, seeing as the game in only 2D, so most of these obstacles need to come with a different approach. So write a comment, make a sketch, anything helps! Also special type of challenges will be appreciated.

"In other news", I'll be away for a whole week starting this wednesday. I'm pretty sure I'll be more or less completely without internet access. Once I get back I'll start putting more work into getting the levels designed, hopefully with the help of your input on this matter.

First of, kudos to everyone, especially Matthew, on the rapid progress!

Now, I have a few things to comment on, even though I know perfectly well that we're not in the last stages yet I figured we might as well get as many issues out in the open as early as possible:

Point of crash

If there's one thing I just hate about most flashgames, it's that the images' crashpoint/physical shape doesn't match the actual image, and especially the sharks in the demo act in this manner. I'd like this game to be as accurate as possible when it comes to this. Just get it as good as it gets, and when perfect is impossible, just make sure to always make the point of crash smaller than the picture, instead of bigger. I would much rather see my fish swim right past/through a small piece of dangerous looking fishingnet, instead of getting caught in something that isn't there…

Movement

I also feel a tad uncomfortable with the way the fish moves. I feel like it accelerates too slowly, and once it starts picking up speed, it goes almost too fast. I'd like to see the acceleration happen more quick and smooth, and the descent should be one constant speed, with possibly a small aceleration at the start.

Concept idea:

I was playing with the idea of having two modes:

Highscore mode:
You get to choose wherever you want to start (which level), and you play for as long as you live.

Explorer mode:
You play from the start, and whenever you finish a level, you'll get a password that you can use to start directly from there next time.

Big fantasy:
What if we made the game really, I mean really, hard at the end, and let the five first players who finishes it send the finish-password to Ocean Legacy, and receive a free T-shirt/cap or something?..
The password could be randomized, but follow a certain pattern, like a CD-key does, so that one guy who beats the game can't just give four of his mates the password for five free caps…
Concern: Is it possible to somehow (easily) hack the game in order to locate such a password?

Can we do it?

So it looks like the game development is humming along. I have some questions about the music. As far as the in-game music, I would like to know how long the track should be, whether it should be loopable (I'm assuming it should), and what exactly the music should be like. Erlend described it as Lord of The Rings underwater. But a more extensive description would help. It also would help me if I could see some of the actual visuals / artwork. Might they be posted somewhere on this site?

Regarding the background music: it looks like there are two compositions here — the start screen and "end of game" music (some kind of fanfare). How long should these compositions be? Nathan, do you want to take one of these?

So, please, everyone, jump in and tell me your thoughts. Thanks.

(Charlotte)

All I'm wondering about is: Do you think we could benefit from using this software? It's completely free. All that has to be done is for me to set up a workingspace.
If you think it could be of use, do explain how.

Here is what I believe the game should be. This is by no means complete, and please make suggestions. My intention here is to get everyone on the same page as far as what we are trying to make and how we will make it.

Gameplay

The game should be simple, fast, easy enough to get people playing but that increases with difficulty so there is some challenge and the opportunity to compete for high scores. I believe that the "helicopter" game model described in the concept design and impleneted in the basic demo we already have will allow for such game play. If anyone would like to suggest a different style of game please do so now as this defines the whole project.

Graphics

I believe that the graphics will make or break the game. A good looking game will attract a lot more players. Please see the Grpahics Requirements thread for more specific details on this topic.

Sound

In order for the download size of the game to be kept small the sound effects and music are going to have to be kept to a fairly small size. You might notice that most flash games don't have sound effects, or are limited to a few beeps. Most people don't come home to play flash games - they waste time at work, and you don't want a lot of loud sound effects in the office (believe me, it's hard to try and explain why Excel is making explosion noises). Please see the Sound Requirements thread for more specific details on this topic.

Level Design

The code section of the wiki already describes the level design format. During the course of development the levels will be defined in a fairly simple XML file. Once we get some momentum I would encourage everyone to take a look at the level design. As the developer it will be my responsibility to actually write the game and import everyone else's contributions. This will not leave a lot of time to design the levels (which you will find to be a surprisingly time consuming process).

That is a fairly quick overview of the general game concept and it's requirements. Assuming we stick with the helicopter model, these are some decisions that need to me made.

Enemy Design

It would seem that most of the enemies will be fairly simple: hooks, nets and other debris that simply scrolls along the screen for the player to avoid. What I need is some ideas on the other types of enemies, like maybe a shark that will rush towards you.

GUI Design

I thought it would be a good idea to have a screen in between each level. It would show you score, but it can show anything we want. It could be a good spot for a "quick facts" section e.g. a small snippet of text that details some aspect of overfishing. The player can ignore it completely and move onto the next level, but some will take the time to read it and maybe click on the links. If everyone thinks this is a good idea then I need someone to research the actual text that will be displayed.

Here are a few sound effects that we could use right now:

• A "swimming" effect for the fish, one for swimming slowly (i.e. descending) and one for swimming fast (i.e. ascending)
• General backgound underwater ambient noises
• A "bonus pickup" effect
• The noise of a boat propeller passing overhead
• Button rollover effects

• The screen resolution at the moment is 600 x 400. Assume that will be the final size for now.
• Animations are one area where we have some options. At the moment I am in favour of just using bitmap/frame based animation, but we can also use plain old SWF animations as well. I'll leave the decision up to the artists. If you feel that a Flash animation would look better than a sequence of frames then we can use that.
• Animation formats can be SWF or jpg/png/gif
• Backgrounds can be jpg/png/gif
• The current animations that we need is still kind of up in the air. It's safe to assume a fast/slow swim animation is needed. Rather than focusing on animations that may or may not be needed I'd probably try and get a bunch of different objects done with one animation (i.e. a trawler with a spinning propeller, a floating plastic bag, a swimming shark, a floating net etc). That way we don't get bogged down in trying to tie in specific animations to the gameplay, because the gameplay is still being decided.